Posts by Had Enough

37

Have You Ever Heard This Explanation Why 144,000 is a Literal Number?

by Had Enough in

jw
friends

the speaker said tonight (yes i went to the memorial to appease my worried family .

well he said its very simple....the scripture talks about the lamb and the 144,000. it doesn't say lambs as in more than one....no, it says lamb referring to the "literal number of one lamb".. so thats how we know that the 144,000 is a literal number and not symbolic like all the rest of revelation.. ok....now am i going bonkers...or has anyone else every heard that explanation before?

i know i never have and that doesn't make any sense to me at all.. had enough

Had Enough

Hi Ozzie: Great to hear from you too again!!! I'm supposed to be working now so I'll send an email off to you and Mrs. Ozzie later today.

And yes I agree with you...this statement I heard last night just makes you shake your head in disbelief and go "HUH". I wonder if anyone notice my jaw drop.

Mary says:

If the 144,000 is a literal number, than the 12,000 out of every tribe of Israel must also be literal as that's where the tally of 144,000 comes from. In other words, this must be a literal number of literal Jews. It cannot be a literal number of symbolic Jews---you can't have it both ways.

And eby says:

The 24 elders in Rev. 5:8 are said to be symbolic of the 144,000 according to the WT. re:(...the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb)

The "24 elders" are in the same sentence as the "Lamb" so that WT ~~reasoning~~ thinking should include them all as being literal including the Lamb.

And I'm really surprised to see others here have heard this from the platform too.

rocketman:

One reason given is that the number of 144,000 must be literal (and limited) because it contrasts with the great crowd, "which no man was able to number" - the idea being that if symbolic then no actual number would be given.

Yes I remember that explanation now, but even then it sounded weak. lisavegas420:

I asked the sister that comes over why was 144,000 taked as a literal number, her answer to me was because it was mentioned in Revelation's twice......

That woman's thinking is even more lame than the speaker's WT explanation last night. I can't really believe he, a long-time, well-seasoned JW could look us in the eyes and dish that out to us. Interesting responses everyone....thank you ALL. Had Enough

37

Have You Ever Heard This Explanation Why 144,000 is a Literal Number?

by Had Enough in

jw
friends

the speaker said tonight (yes i went to the memorial to appease my worried family .

well he said its very simple....the scripture talks about the lamb and the 144,000. it doesn't say lambs as in more than one....no, it says lamb referring to the "literal number of one lamb".. so thats how we know that the 144,000 is a literal number and not symbolic like all the rest of revelation.. ok....now am i going bonkers...or has anyone else every heard that explanation before?

i know i never have and that doesn't make any sense to me at all.. had enough

Had Enough

Dan-O:

I had always concluded that the number was based on 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel, and was therefore a very symbolic number

Yes I remember that as the explanation of why the number was 144,000 but always knew it was taken as a literal number...just was never sure why.

betweenworlds:

Seeing as it's literal, it is real lamb too? baaaaaaaaa

Well I too figured they are grabbing at straws...but "real lamb"....that's a good one!!!!

somebodylovesme:

what kind of a crap explanation is that??

I think that thought is crossing more than a few minds too.

Had Enough

37

Have You Ever Heard This Explanation Why 144,000 is a Literal Number?

by Had Enough in

jw
friends

the speaker said tonight (yes i went to the memorial to appease my worried family .

well he said its very simple....the scripture talks about the lamb and the 144,000. it doesn't say lambs as in more than one....no, it says lamb referring to the "literal number of one lamb".. so thats how we know that the 144,000 is a literal number and not symbolic like all the rest of revelation.. ok....now am i going bonkers...or has anyone else every heard that explanation before?

i know i never have and that doesn't make any sense to me at all.. had enough

Had Enough

The speaker said tonight (yes I went to the Memorial to appease my worried family ) that some may ask why do they (JWs) take 144,000 to be a literal number when the rest of Revelation is all symbolic.

Well he said its very simple....the scripture talks about the Lamb and the 144,000. It doesn't say Lambs as in more than one....No, it says Lamb referring to the "literal number of one Lamb".

So thats how we know that the 144,000 is a literal number and not symbolic like all the rest of Revelation.

OK....now am I going bonkers...or has anyone else every heard that explanation before? I know I never have and that doesn't make any sense to me at all.

Had Enough

15

Ozzie's Weekend Poll #88 (it's about the "Awake!")

by ozziepost in

jw
friends

well, how was your week?

the ngo issue seems to be playing well (or should we say unwell) for the borg right now, and we've been able to meet more new posters on jwd.

no longer lurkers, they're beginning to see the truth about "the troof".

Had Enough

G'day to you Ozzie and please give my regards to Mrs. Ozzie too:

Why are there no polls in the "Awake!" magazine?

4. They don't want to know what you think.

6. Polls may tell them what they don't want to know.

7. Polls would show it's not a "spiritual paradise".

11. Other (please detail) Much like #7....Polls would prove that the WTS's claim of being 'all unified in thought' would be proven wrong. They don't want to see "independent thinking".

Cheers,

Had Enough

26

He's here! Welcome beaker to JWD!

by ozziepost in

jw
friends

you may recall that a week or so ago we were sending kind thoughts to an aussie lurker who was hurting.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/69086/1.ashx those thoughtful comments were much appreciated and now it gives me the greatest pleasure to see our friend make his first introductory post.. in case you missed it, it's here: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/9/47798/2.ashx.

so, my friend beaker, welcome aboard.. enjoy.. cheers, ozzie

Had Enough

Hello Beaker and WELCOME!!!

You've come to the right place for healing from your pain. I, and many, many others here, can attest to that.

I first started lurking at another ex-jw website a few years ago, called H20. There I read the wonderful posts of ones like Ozzie, Farkle, AlanF, Englishman and others that led me to here.

In fact, it was one of Ozzie's posts, here, on disfellowshipping, shunning and the ordeal of going through reinstatement, that urged me to first post under a variation of this name I use now. I have found a wealth of knowledge here that adds to what I learned in the Crisis of Conscience book. I have also found a true fellowship here and have personally met several who have been an inspiration to me.

I'm confident beyond a doubt that you will find the healing you need here.

Welcome and enjoy your stay!!!!

Had Enough

26

policy changed?

by pudd in

please forgive my ignorance on this matter, but i have been informed that the society have now changed their polices on accusations of child abuse and now will go to the police if there are any allegations made.

even without the 2-witness thing.

if this is true it takes nothing away from their past guilt but i was wondering if it is actually the case that the rules have changed or was i being fobbed off?

Had Enough

Our Canadian laws say that any suspected case is to be reported by anyone who has such knowledge.

I know of some JWs who proudly say that their congregation DID turn over a child abuser to the authorities just like they are supposed to, but that was because he openly confessed. What about all the others that don't confess? Do they report those ones? How will the average JW know of anyone who is accused of child abuse but has denied it? The family still will be under the JW policy of "don't make this public or you will be guilty of slander".

I would truly like to hear that the policy has changed, but I have not heard anything to convince me yet.

Here in Canada, a District Overseer gave an enthusiastic talk at the last Circuit Assembly about the WTS's policy on child abuse, with an in-your-face attitude.

His words were: "Everything you hear at the doors, in the newspapers and on the so-called informative TV programs are all LIES by apostates. When you see them...Turn your TV OFF!!! We ABHOR child abuse. AND we DO report all proven cases of child abuse."

Of course the audience nodded and talked it up afterwards....but it seems they didn't notice the little word he didn't emphasize... "PROVEN". So if a person is accused of child abuse in the congregation, and the accusation is denied, then that isn't a "proven" case, is it. I'm confident that there aren't many elders that are going to call the authorities if they have a denial and there is no proof other than the childs word.

So where does that leave the abused child and parents? Right back with all the other hushed-up cases!!!

Had Enough

.

40

I want to hear "Happy Birthday" for the first time ever!!!

by HadEnuf in

jw
friends

yes...it is true.

though my picture here is fairly close to what i really look like50 tomorrow.

since i shall be busy tomorrow celebrating my fifty years of existence and especially my almost 5 years of freedom from the (b)org...please be kind to this old lady and stop by and wish me a happy birthday!

Had Enough

HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!!

To 'HadEnuf' from 'Had Enough'

Seeing that we basically have the same user names, we must both feel the same way about the borg.

I haven't been posting much but couldn't resist jumping in to wish you all the best. I love to see the happiness people get out of being able to celebrate birthdays for the first time in their lives.

Enjoy your day to the fullest and make up for all those lost years. The freedom we have now is a precious thing.

Had Enough

56

My mommy is dying.... :(

by outnfree in

jw
friends

i'm off to new york this morning.

i'm fortunate that my oldest daughter will drive with me, missing class to support her mom and possibly to say a final farewell to her grandma.. my mother has has two strokes this year, and, after the first one in may, told me that she felt like she was dying from the inside out.

she had another stroke at the end of august, and was eventually put in a nursing home.

Had Enough

(((((((My dearest Brenda)))))))

I just saw this thread today and I'm so sorry you are having to go through all this pain and upset. This is such a frightening time for family and for your mom herself.

I'm glad you are taking steps to be with her in her last days. It will be such a comfort to her and to you as well, now and in your memories of this time.

There is wonderful information in print from the hospital and hospice care these days about how the dying may behave so it really helps family members to not be so devastated by possibly hurtful behaviour or responses from ones like your mom. The info really helped me when my mom was dying and even though we did not get along the best during all our lives, I was grateful to have been there with her during her final days.

Please know that I join all the others in my thoughts and love for you dear lady.

Hugs to you and your family,

Had Enough

207

The Watchtower & the cigarette company

by expatbrit in

i: some relevant quotes from watchtower publications

1: the position of the watchtower as regards smoking

*** jv 181 13 recognized by our conduct ***.

Had Enough

Wow Expat...I am impressed!!

Thanks for finding this blatant piece of hypocrisy and analyzing it in your Sherlock manner.

Just when I think I won't get upset anymore by the sneaky, underhanded, overbearing, intrusive, tyranical, "do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do type family-wreckers, something else comes along that strikes a nerve like this does.

Sometime, I hope within the next month or so, I am going to post someone's story of the disgraceful way this group of antiquated old poops has calously manipulated and caused a dear friend to live his last few years in hardship because of their inforcement of this unscriptural, man-made law.

Thank you Expat, for giving me the nudge I needed to tell this person's story for him. I will be forever grateful to him for the way he patiently helped me open my eyes and so needless to say, this bit of detective work you've done, will be of great interest to him and encourage him because, as others have already noted....this could very likely snowball into something verrrrry interesting.

Cheers,

Had Enough

144

LANDMARK DECISION - Vicki Boer vs Watchtower Society

by Uzzah in

as most are aware, vicki boer has been long awaiting a decision to be handed down in a case she started against the society in canada.. the decision was handed down today.

as with any 55 page decision, it will take some time for the legal experts to hash it over and decipher what was said.

but, in a nutshell..... vicki won.

Had Enough

I don't know what went wrong with my attempt at copying a quotation. It seems it was cut off in mid-sentence, so I'll try to paste it once more...If this doesn't work, sorry folks....

"The Judge also spent about 10 pages explaining why in Canada the freedoms given to religion are NOT absolute and damage to an individual supercedes the rights of a religion."

I have now re-typed it, so if that doesn't show the whole quotation, I give up. Editing is not working for me today.

H.E.